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Welcome Everyone!!
annieb joined the chatSep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: Hi everyone!Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Let me know if you have any problems or questions about this back channel.Sep 10
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Mike Widner: 10
MCL joined the chatSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: For folks looking at the screen in the room, join us at 10
Ruby@HASTAC: err, 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: on a mobile phone, go to 10
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juliekeane left this message:Sep 10
Glad to be here!
Ruby@HASTAC: Welcome, Julie.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: There are 14 people in this chat room so far!Sep 10
David Bell joined the chatSep 10
David Bell: Looking forward to the discussion!Sep 10
Jade left this message:Sep 10
can anyone confirm the community learning website? I am having trouble getting to load.
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annieb: thanks for the introduction anaSep 10
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anaventura: hello everyone!Sep 10
catherine Angst joined the chatSep 10
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Sam left this message:Sep 10
hai guy
Victoria Szabo: already did!Sep 10
Samantha Eastman joined the chatSep 10
Victoria Szabo: to twitter or to chatzy - that is the questionSep 10
Julian Lombardi joined the chatSep 10
Mark Olson: :)Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: Live demos are dangerousSep 10
anaventura: Anne sorry I was rushing too much caffeine and english not as 1st language;)Sep 10
Mark Olson: Hmmmm . . . wish the "perspective" section of the eval wasn't a radio button . . . hybrid identities fall through the cracks.Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: I amSep 10
Victoria Szabo: your assessment should use checkboxes instead of radio buttons for the "perspective comment" - I bet half the people in this room wear more than one hat.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: MO: jinxSep 10
catherine Angst: i don't wear any of those hatsSep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Cat: Yes and that is a real problem too - media creator/producers are true partners in this field and should be at the virtual tableSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Texas a&m is looking at evaluating profs on a bottom line basisSep 10
Mark Olson: @Vic - preach it!Sep 10
Jade left this message:Sep 10
Victoria, I vote for twitter & chatzy ;) Thank goodness for tabs.
Victoria Szabo: @Amanda: the bigger the idea, the higher the $ value? ;)Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: Ahahaha don't we wish!Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Jade: showing my age?Sep 10
bglassman left this message:Sep 10
Wow, does this suck on an iPad.
Sam joined the chatSep 10
Amanda Phillips: @bg it does. And twitter is no better :(Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: @Victoria Per your earlier question: hopefully both (Twitter & chat)!Sep 10
Sam: I'm on an iPad. You need to find the join chat button to post normally. Its un the vat bat.Sep 10
Mark Olson: topic for future discussion -- what constitutes a peer? along what vectors of difference/sameness?Sep 10
Sam: *chat barSep 10
Victoria Szabo: >>blush<<Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: some will lose itSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: ....And the whole backchannel blushes. ;-)Sep 10
juliekeane left this message:Sep 10
Now that higher ed facing similar accountability attack as and possibility for unified resistance?
Victoria Szabo: I definitely agree that identifying bigger problems that cross course boundaries is a very valuable 'tudeSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Chatters, don't forget to click "Join chat>>" at the bottom of this window. It will improve he experience.Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: Making backchannel blush might keep us on track? Seems like a good tacticSep 10
Victoria Szabo: every room clearly needs at least 3 projectorsSep 10
Susan joined the chatSep 10
Jade left this message:Sep 10
I am being rate limited on twitter so I can't search for #p3workshop. Anyone have a favorite site to follow hashtags?
Susan: I'm assuming the powerpoints will be or are available to usSep 10
John Jones left this message:Sep 10
@Jade, Twitter is blocking my searches, too
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Mark Olson: i'm struck by how often music training is deployed as context for learningSep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: @Jade, try using a Twitter client like Seesmic or Hootsuite. You can make a column for the search.Sep 10
John Jones joined the chatSep 10
Victoria Szabo: Isn't there a physicality about musical performance that makes this a bit of a hard sell? (Speaking from utter ignorance)Sep 10
Anna Beck joined the chatSep 10
Mike Widner: Meaning the physical aspects aren't learned?Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: I'll also add a widget so you can see tweets at in a moment.Sep 10
Mark Olson: not sure what you mean, Vic?Sep 10
Anna Beck: i learned how to play guitar and sing using youtubeSep 10
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Victoria Szabo: @Anna - fair enought!Sep 10
whitney trettien: @Anna me too, for ukuleleSep 10
Elliott: @victoria - No different than learning art history from a book?Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Oh, I forgot, you can already see the tweets at 10
Victoria Szabo: @Elliott: also inadequate transmediation but maybe doesn't negate value?Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: cool visualzation on Bach!Sep 10
Jade left this message:Sep 10
Thanks Ruby! The hootsuite solution is perfect. Easily retweetable. :)
Amanda Phillips: Yeah as a former orch nerd one of the coolest things I've seen in a whileSep 10
Victoria Szabo: OK, so pay attention to what the specific mode does best.Sep 10
Elliott: Seems to me that a youtube video of a master class 1) provides an experience that's unavailable any other way but 2) encapsulates it so that the days, weeks, years leading to mastery seem more accessible than they areSep 10
Amanda Phillips: experimenting w blogs this summer made me shy about leaving detailed commentary on student postsSep 10
MCL: I think the online music community tends to be very different from the "live" music community, not equivalent contentSep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Amanda - say more?Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: even tho their classmates probably weren't reading others' work anywaySep 10
Victoria Szabo: What about the semi-public sphere?Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: Bigger than a course, small than the universe?Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: Public at what level?Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: well even when I could tell that they had not read or played their games I didn't feel comfortable calling them out in front of peersSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: (We've got 30 users in this chat room now!)Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: 30 with ID tagsSep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Amanda -so would it be easier to do that in person than online? (online record, social anxiety etc.)Sep 10
juliekeane left this message:Sep 10
Concern: what is public? Who is expert? In K-12 that has meant state and corporate testing companies. Teachers now have little to no control over assessment structures in their own classrooms
Julian Lombardi: We are soaked in same meme poolSep 10
Victoria Szabo: interesting - feature article status in wikipediaSep 10
Amanda Phillips: @Vic or in a private channel. Handing back comments on paper instead of in forum visible to othersSep 10
Victoria Szabo: What if nobody got featured? No sliding scale in experimental situation?Sep 10
whitney trettien: Uncertain how I feel about connecting traditional letter grade to whims of the community... mixing two different institutional valuesSep 10
Mike Widner: See the outrage over Cathy's crowd-sourced grading. Lots of people invested in the idea of teacher authority and judgment through grades.Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: I've also not paid much attn to uni privacy rules, but aren't they antsy ab student work featured publicly?Sep 10
MCL: "institution-enhanced community learning" like the idea, not sure i like specifics @whitneySep 10
Julian Lombardi: it justifies our professional existenceSep 10
anaventura: In most videos Nils showed, there is this idea of a 'culture of the amateur" taking over the "culture of the professional" (as Anne talks about...)Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: Baby, bathwater...?Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: unless we rethink who we areSep 10
Mike Widner: Amanda, I think public student work is ok, if the students ok it. Grades and personal information, not so much. If I understand FERPA correctly, but IANAL.Sep 10
John Jones: @Whitney & @Victoria, maybe the point was illustrating the problems with traditional letter grades? A+ to A isn't a big grade dropSep 10
anaventura: this is a complex theme... just look at crowdsourcing in the news and the crisis in journalism...Sep 10
whitney trettien: @John true, but I didn't hear what grade the student would get if their project failed according to community standards?Sep 10
whitney trettien: (only A+ for excellent, A for good)Sep 10
John Jones: @Ana, it seemed like nearly half of the people in the videos were expertsSep 10
anaventura: (sorry I meant amateru vs professional culture is a ethically loaded issue.:)Sep 10
anaventura: *amateur (gosh!):)Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: I'm still stuck on the idea that maybe we can have different levels of "public" and "community" rather than an all-or-nothing approachSep 10
Amanda Phillips: How do instructors deal w collaborations of students that guarantee grades to each other? We have a lot of frats that would love such an opportunitySep 10
John Jones: @Whitney, good point, but it doesn't sound like community failure = course failureSep 10
MCL: authenticity/real-world as a pedagogical ideal is great. the web community is authentic to what? itself?Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: Applied...Sep 10
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Victoria Szabo: I def think we need to engage w/ stakeholders in problems we are attempting to solveSep 10
Mike Widner: Also, how to avoid the trolls? Someone has to assess the community, too.Sep 10
anaventura: @John- that brings another issue : what is an expert? and how do expert/ amateur/ professional play together?:) For me (with some exceptions) most featured folks were non "professionals"Sep 10
Elliott: RE: Chat - hard to say something relevant and well thought out cause it%u2019s moving so fast. many different topics.Sep 10
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@Amanda, I think the issue you brought up shows that even with peer to peer assessment there is still the need for a professor to oversee.
Amanda Phillips: @jade so what is a potential mechanism for that? Professorial override? Grade haxx!Sep 10
John Jones: @Ana, at least two of the violin videos featured experts. But, yes, it does make us question "expertise"Sep 10
Jade left this message:Sep 10
@Amanda maybe 50/50 grading and the prof will take peer feedback in to consideration of their portion of the grade?
John Jones: @Mike, Wikipedia has a pretty strong troll-policing structureSep 10
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@Amanda: Make it a weighted grade -- part teacher, part community feedback.
Victoria Szabo: OK, new ISIS course topic: Virtual Communities of ExpertiseSep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: FYI folks, you need the mic if you want to be on the recording of the workshop!Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Ruby: what if we are shy?Sep 10
John Jones: @Victoria, I think that release we signed had a clause saying that we agree not to be shy today :)Sep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: @Victoria: What John said. Collaboration and engagement require taming our shy sides. ;-)Sep 10
Jade left this message:Sep 10
sounds like performance ethnography.
Fiona left this message:Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @JJ: Oh but that codicil I inserted about not speech-to-texting my oral comments when in breaks where I am at the coffee urn still applies!Sep 10
juliekeane left this message:Sep 10
@amanda fan of project runway? that is exactly what they did last episode..50% public, 50% expertise
Bridget Draxler: If the community evaluates, might they be even more invested in an "end product" than learning?Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @juliekeane: actually last night they had another good concept: one outlines, the other executes - great peer learning/collaboration concept materializedSep 10
John Jones: @Victoria, hmmm. I need to have my lawyers look at that%u2026Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: @Julie oh cool. Wasn't American idol hijacked for a while with a "bad" contestant held on through audience interference?Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Bridget - good point: process versus product orientation (where process includes theory, critique, analysis, history along the way)Sep 10
Bridget Draxler: @Victoria: A combo of peer and community might better balance process and end product?Sep 10
Grace Hagood left this message:Sep 10
@Bridget - perhaps greater investment in the end product would lead to more engagement in the process?
Jade left this message:Sep 10
@Bridget, that is why I said it sounds like performance ethnography. One of the things you have to explain is what is the end result of this for the community we are participating in and what are the possible benefits/risk to the community?
Fiona left this message:Sep 10
@bridget - peer, community, self!
Mike Widner: We also have the issue of getting students to buy in to seeing learning as continuing. Many get their grade then see that topic as closed.Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: also what = end product?Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: grade? Project?Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: True also that focus on an end product - like an essay - as the culmination or instance of a conversation might a useful shift for some private paper-submission oriented teachingSep 10
John Jones: @Sep 10
juliekeane left this message:Sep 10
@Amanda great question! We constantly ask these questions in k-12. Kids= citizens or workers
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John Jones: @Mike, exactlySep 10
Elliott: too bad Microsoft's research doesn't inform their products at all. at least they publish!Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: A form of brain drain?Sep 10
Mike Widner: Google Research Labs are a good model of a tech company publishing, trying out their research ideas, etc.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: [Reminder, click "Join Chat>>>" at the bottom of the screen to get the full chat experience. Talking to you Fiona, Jade, Julie, Grace...]Sep 10
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Grace Hagood: Oh, hey, how 'bout that. :)Sep 10
Jade: I was wondering what that bar next to some of us was about.Sep 10
Grace Hagood: <----- noob!Sep 10
Elliott: I read this article by a Microsoft researcher profiling users. they did an amazing study of mobile business professionals in 1997. Hit it right on the head and business hasn't changed. but their studies of teens in 200-2003 fell flat because they couldn't understand the users. The story of the company in user experience research.Sep 10
Nancy Kimberly: <--nuther oneSep 10
Jade: Grace, it should be n00b, & me too.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: We're all noobs here, Grace.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: OK, now we are getting into the idea of the various publicsSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Ian Bogost says Prezi eats kittens.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: @Jade, quite right. #n00b.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: Paul Thegard? (SP?)Sep 10
Elliott: language, concepts, credentials --> socially mediatedSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: @Amanda. Heh. Prezi does make my head hurt sometimes, but some people seem to be bale to use it better than others. Depends on your cogitive style, I think.Sep 10
Elliott: crowdsource grading --> social reconstruction?Sep 10
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Dixie: Thanks Fiona!Sep 10
Nancy Kimberly: Gibson's story re: ASU's new credentialing of teachers of exceptional children is also exactly what is happening in the world of yoga teachers. The only country that currently has bona fide credentialing for them is Britain.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @fiona: ty!Sep 10
Fiona left this message:Sep 10
That's a collection of titles by Paul Thagard
Amanda Phillips: David sent me a preview of the prezi and my head was spinning! Glad he's here to narrateSep 10
Dixie: @amanda, Prezi is hard to understand without the narrative! :)Sep 10
Nilspete left this message:Sep 10
Yes, crowd sourcing grading is a reconstruction -- IF the crowd has access to the criteria and can discuss the criteria.
Amanda Phillips: I think he's coined a new term! You saw it here, folks.Sep 10
Mike Widner: Anyone have the URL to his presentation? I don't want to try and type it in from what I'm seeing on screen.Sep 10
Fiona left this message:Sep 10
I gave a Prezi at a conference where nobody had seen it and people thought I was a genius :-P
John Jones: @Dixie, @Amanda: ditto with all slide shows. I only rarely understand anything on SlideshareSep 10
John Jones: @Mike, its on screenSep 10
Mike Widner: 10
John Jones: @Mike mea culpaSep 10
Mike Widner: :)Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: benignopticonSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Ha yeah. Surveillance gradingSep 10
Grace Hagood: Will the presentations be available on the HASTAC website after today?Sep 10
David Bell left this message:Sep 10
Unobtrusive does feel like surveillance.
Jade: Sometimes the babies don't learn to walk if you don't stand them up first, right?Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Here's the link to David Gibson's presentation: 10
Amanda Phillips: thAt was the hidden camera evaluating us!Sep 10
Grace Hagood: Thanks.Sep 10
Mark Olson: @David: yes, but I think after Foucault we need a more nuanced understanding of the difference between surveillance (where observation is articulated to a particular technology of control) versus "just looking"Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: I don't want to be knee-jerk anxious about this - thinks like after action review in games are really awesome tools - but where's the line?Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: I suppose if you know it is on the computer you know it is fair game?Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: @mark "just looking" is a hostile act to so many groups thoSep 10
Mike Widner: So in a computational model, the instructor would spend time determining task models, evidence, etc.?Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: (until you turn on the web cam secretly)Sep 10
Fiona joined the chatSep 10
Mark Olson: yes, of course. I wouldn't want to leave that term uninterrogated. But it's an honest question about forms of visuality that aren't equated with violence.Sep 10
juliekeane: Agree about concerns over surveillance but in world of public school classrooms...unfortunate‚Äčly that is a givenSep 10
jpm: but the very notion of a passive observer is problematic. Observers structure situations, select, etc.Sep 10
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Mark: the nuance is everything here. How overt is the watching?
Victoria Szabo: Adaptive testing: speaking of which - glad I took the GRE before the test decides whether to dumb down on the basis of skipped QsSep 10
Amanda Phillips: @Julie this is true.Sep 10
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Jade: where is the collaboration? Is there room to collaborate rather than survey?Sep 10
juliekeane: Absolutely..this can not be hidden. All observational structures need to be completely transparent.Sep 10
Bridget Draxler: @David: good point. And are they looking back? Two-directional looking is less aggressive.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @juliekeane: but isn't his point that invisibility (as opposed to transparency) is part of what is desirable to do this kind of assessment?Sep 10
Jade: @Victoria, the dumbing down of questions makes it so your aren't surprised at a really low score?Sep 10
Mark Olson: @ David. AgreedSep 10
David Bell left this message:Sep 10
The background for me here is Google spying, I'm afraid...
Victoria Szabo: I never did figure out the Rubiks CubeSep 10
Dixie: I like the audience categories, bc the public is not necessarily the same as "trusted others" -- that's an important segmentSep 10
Elliott: re surveillance: Affordance isn't the same as best practice. Imagine an instructor being able to see then entire revision history of an essay- that's an [undeveloped] affordance of digital that the typwriter couldn't conceive of.Sep 10
Elliott: Way different than instructor looking into the webcam as you writeSep 10
David Bell left this message:Sep 10
Like that example.
juliekeane: @victoria..hmm thinking of reality tv..participants know camera there but after awhile ignore its presence. Isn't that what we all do online?Sep 10
Bridget Draxler: @Elliott and it's not just that ht instructor can see the whole process... the student can see their own process differently too.Sep 10
David Bell left this message:Sep 10
Not quite, since knowing has an impact on performance.
Jade: I'm not buying reality TV participants forget that the camera is there. Plus, most of those shows are scripted to a degree, thus the disclaimers about producer input.Sep 10
Sam Iglesias: This chat is a distraction. I can't process lecture and discussion at once.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Dixie - I agree..Sep 10
Philipp left this message:Sep 10
Love the focus on assessment today. We are very interested in building some of these new assessment models at P2PU. If anyone here would like to co-tinker/build, please let me know. More info on workshop we are hosting later this month:
Amanda Phillips: @Elliot i find paper trails of drafts easier to compare than digi ones. Easy to save over.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: Ah now I get "sonnet" betterSep 10
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Grace Hagood: It's actually the performative aspects of eportfolios and other digital productions that I find so interesting, actually.Sep 10
Philipp: ah ... i hadn't "joined" the chat (outed as super n00b)Sep 10
Jade: Me too GraceSep 10
Mark Olson: @Grace - can you say more?Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: Re: portfolios - often it is the act of having to pull it together - reconstruct the history - that becomes a review and reflection.Sep 10
MCL: @Sam I'm having the same trouble! I am paying a lot of attention as a result to the difficulty of mulit-tasking, thoughSep 10
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Jade: @Victoria, plus portfolios are for a specific audience and purpose so people generally try to construct a specific narrative.Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: So are these nodes equally weighted? Back to qs from last pressSep 10
Amanda Phillips: pres not press. Brrr autocorrectSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: (FYI, I've changed the setting so folks will immediately "Join" the chat after selecting a display name.)Sep 10
Sam Iglesias: Partially I find the slides to be too cluttered.Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: double fail.Sep 10
Grace Hagood: I think (coming from the standpoint of teaching composition) that students are better able to understand not only issues of audience, but also their own agency as authors when they're involved in producing digital work that they know is going to be available online.Sep 10
Elliott: re: chat - also having toruble absorbing both. but maybe multitasking attention spans need this? it it a net gain over a presentation alone?Sep 10
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Victoria Szabo: @Amanda: you decide on bubble size based on your knowledge of the domain?Sep 10
Grace Hagood: They're very tuned into how they present themselves in a public digital context, often.Sep 10
whitney trettien: having same problem with chat. find twitter easier bc of character restrictions.Sep 10
Bridget Draxler: Grace, I completely agree. Citing sources, for instance, somehow suddenly seems important, right?Sep 10
Sam Iglesias: It's too much. Reading the slides, reading the chat, listening to talk, responding.Sep 10
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Victoria Szabo: Metadata generation => keycapture?Sep 10
Elliott: re: digital affordances - Prezi is great example of blowing past limitations of paper that PPT inherited. But I agree that paper is much better at other things- no paperkiller technology yet...Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: @grace I will probably make the forum more open next time. But does it feel public to them if no one from the outside is responding?Sep 10
Elliott: Human and Computational interpretation shouldn't overlap in that diagram...or at least the inputs and methodology don't overlapSep 10
MCL: Any one catch that definition of machine?Sep 10
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Robert Duvall: Relevant? 10
Jade: @Amanda, how is response being judged?Sep 10
Grace Hagood: @amanda I think it feels public as long as the class has access, but no doubt that's compounded if outside readers are allowed.Sep 10
anaventura was timed outSep 10
Elliott: interesting grades/risk viz...needs tuning though to represent patterns better thoughSep 10
Amanda Phillips: I mean if you make a forum public, will students treat it as such if no one from the outside is posting? The Internet is a big place and can feel emptySep 10
Jade: cloud resourced internet is the machine is what I haveSep 10
Victoria Szabo: I like the computer vision and map examples as general discovery principles to be integrated into humanities teachingSep 10
Amanda Phillips: LOVE badges!Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: like game achievementsSep 10
MCL: Thanks, Jade!Sep 10
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Grace Hagood: Good question. Seems like something like the badges could help facilitate discussion; maybe a nice tie-in to what we were just discussing.Sep 10
Elliott: @amanda- forums as RPGsSep 10
Grace Hagood: (I'm also a softie for badges!)Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: Gm can grant exp based on quality of postsSep 10
Nilspete: Public space for students to work on toy assignment will not draw a real community. That is why you need real problems situated in real communitiesSep 10
Elliott: interesting concept. new abilities, charectoristics. not hierarchical- allows for specializationSep 10
Amanda Phillips: And ppl can grant each other exp by responding as well. Maybe Mary Kay style pyramid exp scheme?Sep 10
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Grace Hagood: @nils Agreed.Sep 10
Nilspete: Badges become community visible assessment criteriaSep 10
Jade: @Nils, I think it is good for practice though so students feel comfortable going out to real communities.Sep 10
Fiona: here is David's ASU page: 10
Elliott: @nils - strikes me that this cuts out the educational middleman. education is valuable theoretically because it will allow dealing with real problems. why not learn on the real thing? like an apprentice model
Ruby@HASTAC: PSA: Folks having trouble with the display of this chatroom may want to use or 10
Victoria Szabo: Seems like an intermediate step is to use these tools like we do clickers - take the temperature of the room, not so much individual trajectories, given our immersive digital environment building is so experimental and standards of what constitutes "goodness" haven't yet been developedSep 10
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Nilspete: @jade. Learners do need to understand and develop these skills. But I'd argue, dare to be bold.Sep 10
Dixie: @elliot,
nils: what about the value of formal/informal spaces as places where students can try out new things (fail successfully) and new identities?Sep 10
Elliott: @nils & victoria - great point. communities create, define, enable 'goodness'. building them will catalyze this.Sep 10
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mbadams left this message:Sep 10
@ruby tx for the new view!
Dixie: can students explore as successfully in a public setting where they may not feel as supported?Sep 10
Elliott: @Dix interesting. I think the community needs to be narrow enough to provide context for success and or identity creationSep 10
Nilspete: An informal place to practice is important, it's going to require other means of getting feedback. I'm planning a project with elementary kids in wikipedia. I think we'll use the history page and the user personal pageSep 10
Elliott: Public is a scary word. but by community I hear a selected group with shared attention spaceSep 10
Dixie: yes, absolutely.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: @Amanda, thanks for repping the back channel! I hope folks will speak up to bring this conversation into the room.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: Yes we use wikipedia in ISIS classes when we talk about new forms of knowledge production - shows the strengths, flaws, and hidden control structures...Sep 10
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Bridget Draxler: Sometimes the pressure of performing in front of a community can raise the stakes (and the quality of the work) in a good way!Sep 10
Jade: @nils, I agree it is important to be bold but it goes back to the question of making sure communities that have a history of not being included are integrated.Sep 10
Nilspete: @Dixie. Look at the exploration in YouTube. Music is a good exampleSep 10
Elliott: [thought]- what if the chat was front and center and presentation was on the side?Sep 10
Dixie: I think people receive feedback differently depending on whether it's in a public environment (where other people are "watching") or in a community of true peersSep 10
Elliott: [thought]- what if one of you is sitting next to me and I dont know it! haSep 10
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Sam Iglesias: Chatty chatSep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: </break type="bio">Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: LolSep 10
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catherine Angst: plugSep 10
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Nilspete: @Elliott. Yes context matters. A reason to work in public is for many of us, there are few collaborators and by being public we hope to find colleagues. The value of finding colleagues outweighs the rough and tumble for meSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: The great Prezi debate!Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: For everyone, prezi wars I think started at the humanities gaming institute, where ab and ib were expert panelistsSep 10
Victoria Szabo: uh ohSep 10
Amanda Phillips: couple people, myself included, repping hgi today :)Sep 10
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Nilspete: Blog everything. Nobody may read. That is OKSep 10
Amanda Phillips: (hi grace :D)Sep 10
Grace Hagood: (Hi, Amanda :D)Sep 10
Elliott: @nils, mark - Mark's suggestion about exploring 'peer' - people inhabiting a shared attention space? move past novice/expert to share interest - like nils finding colleaguesSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Frim Mike Widner on Twitter: Balsamo's site: http://designingculture.netSep 10
Victoria Szabo: interesting to create a project so intentionally in so many modes - wonder which came first? (if any)Sep 10
Patrick Hayes joined the chatSep 10
Elliott: coming back to digital affordances/privacy- be interesting to map or visualize web sties visited by participants of P3...Sep 10
Elliott: e.g. I just found out about humanities gaming instituteSep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Elliot: +1Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Can't really surf much. Multitasking is not easy on iPadSep 10
Mark Olson: @Elliott - I like that because it moves toward a model of investment/contribution rather than a priori statusSep 10
Elliott: chatting inversely proportional to speed of image changing on screen?Sep 10
John Jones: @Amanda, for realSep 10
Nilspete: I agree about portfoliosSep 10
Julian Lombardi: commercial software tends to impede tinkeringSep 10
Amanda Phillips: would have brought MacBook but its wireless is shot. Apple multiple fail.Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: speaking of commecial entities that oppose tinkeingSep 10
Elliott: @julian - yes. founders of great corporations turn tinkering into business models. open source builds tinkering into a sustained process so you avoid the microsoft ossificationSep 10
Julian Lombardi: That trend with Apple is alarmingSep 10
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Mark Olson: In relation to material/digital tinkering, we're starting up an arduino/processing interest group here at Duke. Drop me an email if you're interested in helping us get this off the ground. Hoping to have our first meeting in the next few weeks.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: @Julian, that trend has led me to forsake my Apple fangirl status. I only buy open source now!Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: self made conditions are not sellableSep 10
Amanda Phillips: @ruby dittoSep 10
Nilspete: Tinkerers self assess. Does it work for me. The community assesses, does it work for usSep 10
Julian Lombardi: @ruby I am almost thereSep 10
Elliott: Apple, Google, microsoft are anti tinkering, but are successful in proportion to how well they understand their users and can anticipate what they need.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: @Amanda But you are using an iPad?Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: tho iPad was unavoidable as best ereader on the marketSep 10
Julian Lombardi: Apple shut down Hypercard a long time agoSep 10
Elliott: try to search for articles or strange punctuation marks on google...Sep 10
Elliott: articles = a, theSep 10
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Victoria Szabo: BUT structured stable systems also scaffold access (not that I don't heart open source)Sep 10
Mike Widner: Linux community is made up of tinkerers. Not self-assessing when they decide which patches go into the kernal, for example.Sep 10
Mike Widner: err... kernelSep 10
Amanda Phillips: yes. It was a gift from someone who tried to get me the Que first, but the product was cancelsSep 10
Mark Olson: Clarification: Group is open to all, not just official @Duke affiliatesSep 10
Amanda Phillips: canceledSep 10
Julian Lombardi: whats a pen?Sep 10
Elliott: in the past, laptops were provided. now, pen and paper...Sep 10
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Dixie: LOL :)Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Get ready to get interactive, y'all!Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: uh oh - about to get a hand crampSep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: "Connected independence" is going to be very small in the tag cloud. ;-)Sep 10
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Jade: openness is specialSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Very few of these terms deal with expertise. More focus on relationshipsSep 10
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Victoria Szabo: maybe we assume the expertise is the given?Sep 10
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Jade: or maybe collaborations create an expertise?Sep 10
Mark Olson: or expertise is relationalSep 10
Amanda Phillips: That would be nice but not my experience in all collabs!Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: I was gunning for synthesis...Sep 10
Jade: two minds are better than one in positive collaborations.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: The sytax of this tag cloud allows multiple-word labels.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: err, syNtaxSep 10
Victoria Szabo: On the topic of plugs: The FHI Experiencing Virtual Worlds Working Group meets on Friday, 9/17 for our organizational meeting for the year. East Duke 111 at 330 Friday 9/17.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Ruby - you can't see the underscoresSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: I love how this exercise both teaches the form of a tag cloud and also questions how we understand them.Sep 10
Elliott: very similar to interrogating your data in science. method constrains resultsSep 10
Elliott: I'd see the ratio of the number of instances of the most popular tag to total number of tags as a measure of diversitySep 10
Amanda Phillips: @Elliot I like thatSep 10
Elliott: but ass Anne is saying that's a measure of the crowd, not something we can learn content fromSep 10
Elliott: uh oh turn on safesearchSep 10
Julian Lombardi: I feel filteredSep 10
Elliott: the quantum indeterminacy of insightSep 10
Jade: I now I feel like I'm in a real chat room.Sep 10
Elliott: can't measure position and velocity at the same timeSep 10
Nilspete: Normed to the communitySep 10
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Julian Lombardi: Intellectual-XSep 10
Victoria Szabo: how about make them dynamic front ends to databases of content?Sep 10
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Nilspete: The differences could become reflected in different assessment criteriaSep 10
Julian Lombardi: Experts chooseSep 10
Elliott: use of tag cloud comparable to arithmetic mean - easy to produce, but limited usefulness except in specific situations?Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: experts are chosenSep 10
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Jade: @Julian is choosing and act of creation?Sep 10
LD Baker: I liked the idea of Taxonomy of Tinkering, and tinkering with cloudsSep 10
Julian Lombardi: @Jade Yes - at a meta-levelSep 10
slgrant left this message:Sep 10
Library of Congress subject terms only recently scrapped the category Cookery in favor of more modern term. LoC also categorizes women under men, if I remember correctly.
Julian Lombardi: buit it involves power dynamics of legitimacySep 10
Amanda Phillips: Having worked a bit assigning keywords to early modern texts (NOT my field), I am skeptical of the process of categorizing!Sep 10
Nilspete: @Elliot. Arithmetic mean is more useful when you add StdDevSep 10
LD Baker: So, are we left with the tyranny of the majority or experts assigning?Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: "Tha would be the needle in the HASTAC." -bglassmanSep 10
Robert Duvall: choosing is certainly an act of destructionSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: The above quotation was referring to the reverse tag cloud idea.Sep 10
Victoria Szabo: @Robert: that sounds biblicalSep 10
Elliott: @LD - no other choice. we accept Library of Congress or we build our own system or we accept taxonomic anarchy. the arbitrary and constraining features of taxonomy are inherentSep 10
Elliott: beware of the false possibility of a 'freeing' taxonomySep 10
Amanda Phillips: I find this really interesting in terms of student pop too. Many of the students I work with wouldn't be familiar w tag cloudsSep 10
Jade: are systems of classification and organization inherently bad?Sep 10
Mike Widner: on categorization, see Lakoff, _Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things_Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: They facilitate understanding of patternsSep 10
Julian Lombardi: what you do with that information is the issueSep 10
Elliott: @mike- second recommendation of that book i've heard this week. I'm soldSep 10
Jade: I just added the book to my wishlist. Thanks for the rec.Sep 10
Elliott: @jade - no. I think good/bad are subjective as in they come into play during perception. Inherent properties are more structural. The point is to understandSep 10
Grace Hagood: Something for the game scholars to consider. From a fellow Humanities Gaming Institute tweeter: How is tinkering different from playing?Sep 10
Julian Lombardi: I now have a better understanding of group-think around collaborationSep 10
Elliott: Classification is neccessary. All I'm saying is that arguing for a new way of classification won't alleviate the inefficiencies of the processSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Can someone toss me the Twitter feed link again?Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: 10
Ruby@HASTAC: You can also see tweets at 10
Julian Lombardi: ... and we have heard that groups are bad at making good decisionsSep 10
MCL: @Elliot @Jade -- I agree. If you understand the categorization and it's limits, it's not such a Foucault problemSep 10
patrick hayes: circuit bending is a playful tinkering that often involves "breaking" as part of the process.Sep 10
Elliott: @mcl - I'd even suggest that Foucault shouldn't be seen as identifying a problem about classification- at least one that can be solved. maybe instead he described a process whereby unethical/undesirable actions were supported. not against structure, but for restructuring? similar to current commentSep 10
Amanda Phillips: This is ot but if anyone has a rec for iPad twitter app, tweet deck is failing me today.Sep 10
MCL: You can make book recommendations to your local librarian, what if you could make subject heading recommendations to the Lib of Cong?Sep 10
Elliott: @ mcl aleviates some problems- exacerbates others. you end up getting close to California politicsSep 10
MCL: @ elliot good point.Sep 10
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Elliott: Anyone got ideas from the presentations or discussions that resonate?Sep 10
Elliott: For me: mediated or 'designed' interactive experiences incorporating 'badges' as learning/assessment tools - could mix quantitative (# posts, edited posts, etc) with qualitative (instructor designates a student as an 'integrator' of ideas students designate each other as 'helpers' of peers etc)Sep 10
Elliott: For me #2: taking a look at 'backchannels' and other emerging technologies and developing social conventions that help integrate them into learning (parts of presentations to check out backchannel insights). this could include a study of backchannel usage vs. personality type, attention as measured by eye tracking, and other measurements so we can understand how these systems affect learningSep 10
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Elliott: Samantha just showed me this interesting video on eye-tracking: 10
Elliott: it maps where the person's eyes went in real timeSep 10
Elliott: (on a google results page)Sep 10
projector: Get ready to unconference!Sep 10
projector: The back row has been warned... ;-)Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Embrace chaos.Sep 10
Jade: and then organize it.Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: this backchannel has been quite respectful! :PSep 10
Nilspete: @Elliott. I'm interested in the badge as assessment ideas.Sep 10
Elliott: @Amanda: <disrespect>Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: @Elliot :(Sep 10
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Jade: 10
Bridget Draxler: here's the list: [[@message/list/P3|]]Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: @nils Also class assessment as rpg!Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: I think we have a quorum for gaming and pedagogy sessionSep 10
Elliott: @Amanda <Level Up>Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: wootSep 10
Clare: definitely interested in gaming and pedagogy!Sep 10
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Jade: Scott Pilgirm ftwSep 10
David Gibson: I'll join in the gaming and pedagogySep 10
Nilspete: @Amanda. Expand rpgSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Role playing game. Experience points, leveling up, new abilities, etcSep 10
David Gibson: this ties with the "badges" idea tooSep 10
Nilspete: @Amanda thnxSep 10
Amanda Phillips: badges remind me of gaming achievementsSep 10
Amanda Phillips: yes David :)Sep 10
Elliott: alignment: good/evil lawful/chaotic no hierarchy, just choicesSep 10
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Amanda Phillips: chaotic good conferenceSep 10
Supersecret: identity is overratedSep 10
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Nilspete: @Amanda@David. Is there a conversation about who defines the badges -- the assessment criteria?Sep 10
Nilspete: In game designSep 10
David Gibson: @Nils. the game-masterSep 10
Amanda Phillips: not that I'm aware. ATM it is developer whimsySep 10
David Gibson: who creates the magic circleSep 10
David Gibson: Its a good question similar to who "owns" the communitySep 10
Amanda Phillips: but there are convos about good achievement designSep 10
David Gibson: yepSep 10
Nilspete: @supersecret. Interesting comment. It seems to me that stabile identity is a key to building reputation.Sep 10
Elliott: @nils - for RPGs there's the Official Dungeons and Dragons rules that are very numerical and increasingly complex- but you can change them if you want. what if there were an educational standards body publishing something similar...Sep 10
David Gibson: might exist already but has not been put into gamer language yetSep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Bc of social media aspects of some consoles, gamers can earn pts so achievement design should be ab balancing difficulty and time investment w rewardSep 10
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Jade: xbox love has an interesting community based around their achievement system.Sep 10
Supersecret: identity forces conformity in reputation-based systemsSep 10
Elliott: We've totally hijacked the backchannel. I think my pitch will have to be about something else!Sep 10
David Gibson: hahaSep 10
Supersecret: I am now feeling more empoweredSep 10
David Gibson: @supersecret. and you can have lots of identities within and across communities, right?Sep 10
David Gibson: so where is the enforcement?Sep 10
Supersecret: I already doSep 10
Elliott: Some discrete aspects of gaming & pedagogy: Authority (who should make the rules?) Design (how best to make the rules?) Affordances (What does this get us?)Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Thanks ElliotSep 10
Amanda Phillips: we can prob roll badges into itSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Or badges can have their own :)Sep 10
Elliott: Given that a defining aspect of games if choosing to follow rules, maybe also Buy-in (why would someone voluntarily play by the rules?)Sep 10
Jade: can the ipod and incorporating technology go together?Sep 10
Supersecret: .Sep 10
Supersecret: .Sep 10
Nilspete: @supersecret. Ever tried to merge the reputations that you have built in different identities?Sep 10
Andrea: Apply for a thatcamp bootcamp fellowship. 10
Supersecret: They often conflictSep 10
Jade: Plug, if you are in the area, there are still 6 spaces left for THATCamp RTP, October 16th http://thatcamprtp.orgSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Also re gaming what about value of production and integration of design of games into class workSep 10
Elliott: Entrepreneurship vs open source? entrepreneurship AS open source?Sep 10
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slgrant: what constitutes a game? (gaming + pedagogy) David GibsonSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: The gaming convo in room 240 is splitting out with a separate group talking about badges.Sep 10
Clarissa Lee: am sorry that i had to leave before the unconference, had another forum to attend, but i will be contributing to the wiki from afar and am watching all that's going on from twitter and chatSep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Interesting that when the folks in 240 forked, they split (unintentionally, I assume) into an all-male group and a mostly-female group.Sep 10
Jade: @Ruby. Ha! Which is which? I'm guessing badges is male?Sep 10
Jade: yes that was me outing my biases.Sep 10
Clarissa Lee: talking about games, which group is talking about non-traditional games and game deisgns for non-game designers as a 'space' for playing-out 'scholarly' argumentsSep 10
Clarissa Lee: @EEliot : rules or ethics? rules in games in my experience seem to be merely the outlining of the limitations and space of movement allowed of the gamerSep 10
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juliekeane: @Ruby I noticed that as well @Jade, You guessed rightSep 10
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slgrant: need to read up on amygdala and what's going on there in gaming -- to help explain why first-person shooter/dying engages playersSep 10
Fiona: Here's a badge-cloud: 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Cool, Fiona! What was the input for that?Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: @jade yes badges is maleSep 10
Fiona: folks are talking about Pauli Murray in a bunch of sessions. Here's a pic of one of hte early workshops developing the murals for around Durham -- at my house, on my walls! 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Anyone else using Flickr today? Don't forget to tag photos P3Workshop. 10
Fiona: @Ruby - the wikispace for p3 -- not sure if it included the sessions or not.Sep 10
slgrant: Lee Sheldon's class came up in gaming + pedagogy: 10
slgrant: popsicles in the hallway!!Sep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: LAST MINUTE UPDATE: Feminist Pedagogy is ON, it's in the cafe (basement) on the end far from the TV.Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Enjoy the second round of sessions, everyone!Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Come to feminist pedagogy!Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: (or non patriarchal pedagogy)Sep 10
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Fiona: here's another pic of the Pauli Murray mural in progress : 10
Fiona: collective design and colors and surround, then taken and blown up for the mural - all completed with community workshops and engagementsSep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Hey all I'm missing a black LG phone. Black rubber case w rat nibbles from my pets. :) lmk if you see it plz!Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: great fem ped conversation going on right now. How to raise anti patriarchal issues wo alienating students?Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: Also thinking ab media production in classroomSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Margaret is in favor of remixing films to emphasize certain types of representationsSep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: 10 minute warning everyone!Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Come back to room 240 at 4:45. I will be reminding you in person shortly.Sep 10
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Ruby@HASTAC: Hey backchannel, want to help crowdsource an important decision? Where should we go for dinner/drink after the reception?Sep 10
Ruby@HASTAC: Also, it's time to wrap it up, please join us in 240 for a closing session!Sep 10
Jade: we'll be up soon.Sep 10
projector: Nevermind the crowdsourcing, The Federal is the place to go. But hang around for the reception first!Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Does the federal have the capacity for all of us? Seemed small last night...Sep 10
Elliott: The joyce does! outdoor beer garden out back...Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Feminist pedagogy group ROCKS!!!Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: Is wiki mobile friendly?Sep 10
Supersecret: I feel obscuredSep 10
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Samuel del Iglesia: You should, secret.Sep 10
Supersecret: :)Sep 10
Supersecret: ;)Sep 10
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Elliott: FYI, google grants to study its digitized books: 10
Nilspete: Negotiating project to meet all needs. Community goals - community outcomesSep 10
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Bridget Draxler: A few links for digital humanities projects discussion:,,, 10
Elliott: Burning library game: choices reflect what type of scholarship is possible, excellent illustration of incomplete historical recordSep 10
Nilspete: Private universe project has series on elem sch math. Game-like in pre-gaming world
Jade: 10
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Clare: actually it's not really a "burning library" game... that was just one sceneSep 10
Clare: although that label will probably stick now...Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: Ps we should share Twitter names to expand our networks... Speaking of isolationSep 10
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Amanda Phillips: I am NazcatheMad... Haven't been on Twitter backchannel bc tweet deck fails :(Sep 10
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SAM: Call it "Burning Library Escape" oh yeahSep 10
Amanda Phillips: yeah Clare sorry for misrepresenting! Just thought that was a fun exampleSep 10
Elliott: Escape from the Burning Library of Doom (and its effects on medieval literature scholarship)Sep 10
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Amanda Phillips: @Elliot lvl upSep 10
John Jones: @Amanda: I'm @johnmjones on TwitterSep 10
Elliott: I have a confession: I don't have anything to do with twitter. Nothing personal, I'm not misanthropic. Catch me on instead.Sep 10
Clare: this is exactly why I *probably* won't be using backchat with my large undergrad classes...Sep 10
SAM: Japanese RPG translation: My Final Burning Library Fantasy VIIISep 10
Amanda Phillips: @Elliot LEVEL DOWN >:OSep 10
Clare: Stop! Stop it now!Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: ;)Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: I remember the vis thesaurus examples ab brought in terms of gender were a tough sell for the engineersSep 10
Amanda Phillips: at hgiSep 10
Nilspete: @Amanda so tool choice becomes a badge? And Tweeting moves you up a level?Sep 10
Fiona: 10
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Fiona: I've started putting tombstone markers on the top of dead class projectsSep 10
Fiona: i.e. this site was used from xxxx-xxxxSep 10
Nilspete: @Fiona. Why do class projects die?Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: @nils yes! You got the Scholar Twit badge :DSep 10
Fiona: here are omeka examples: 10
Fiona: @nils especially when they're about local or contemporary issues -- the burden of 'updating' or being represented as complete when the projects are over seems important in some situationsSep 10
Elliott: I need more people to join so they can give me badges.Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: @ruby when you get a chance can you add the orange co middle school to the game pedagogy report? Wd like to look up laterSep 10
Fiona: ppl are on 10
Amanda Phillips: I amSep 10
Amanda Phillips: it tells me when ive been google searchedSep 10
Elliott: <starts following the work of Amanda Phillips>Sep 10
Nilspete: @Fiona. Thnx. I interpreted "die" to mean failure, not completionSep 10
Fiona: they spam all the disciplinary listservs constantly - i didn't know ppl were actually using itSep 10
Jade: 10
MCL: @Ruby Please add to the Taxonomy and Knowledge seciton, the challenges we face when close-reading new technological forms. That really blew my mind to think about!Sep 10
Fiona: (I was referencing above)Sep 10
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Nilspete: Class course curriculum community. A hierarchy of learning settingsSep 10
John Jones: Class, course, curriculum, community diagram by @Nilspete 10
Jade: Also, very cool.Sep 10
Nilspete: Advising was another topicSep 10
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John Jones: @Fiona I think this thread has doubled's traffic for todaySep 10
Amanda Phillips: Can we hand out p3 badges??Sep 10
Amanda Phillips: I earned back channelerSep 10
Clare: and if anyone wants to be part of Victoria and my "Experiencing Virtual Worlds" working group on Duke campus over the next year - our theme will be pedagogy and games - then please email me: thank you !!Sep 10
Elliott: We should backchannel while drinking at the JoyceSep 10
Amanda Phillips: Cathy gets goddess badge